Q30 Mr. Dave Anderson: One specific point, within the plan it is envisaged that smart meters will be installed in every home by 2020 yet I met with the Energy Regulators Association a few weeks ago and they envisaged it will take three and a half years from now to work out the issues around inter-operability so if people want to move supplier they can keep the same meter. They have worked on the basis that there will be something like 80 per cent coverage by 2020. Does that tally with what you are hearing from them as well?

Edward Miliband: The interesting thing about this, David, is that we get some people saying we are going too slowly but I did not realise there were some people who are saying we are going too quickly! We have to install 47 million gas and electric smart meters by 2020 on the basis of the plans that we have set out. I believe, and I will get Phil to come in on this, that we built into our ten-year roll-out a couple of years of preparation that we thought would be necessary so you can start some of it off but you clearly need a set of preparations to get it in place. We think 2020 is a plausible timetable. As I say, some people are urging us to go faster and I admire their ambition. We think this is a plausible timetable.

Mr Wynn Owen: The Secretary of State is correct, we have set an indicative timetable of around 2020 for completing the roll-out. We think we can do that although many people have likened this to the biggest domestic programme since the roll-out of natural gas in the 1960s and 1970s, so there is a lot to do. We have been consulting, as you know, on the model and will be making an announcement later this autumn on the preferred likely model for smart meter roll-out but there then will be, you are quite right, a period of planning and preparation before smart meters are rolled out under the mandate. We estimate that could be of the order of up to three years so we would expect under that mandate perhaps the first smart meters to be installed around about the end of 2012 with completion by 2020. If you are wondering about the timescale, if I could just explain, the central programme of work managed by government will need to be co-ordinated with industry changes. We have to put in place rules, systems and infrastructure and there are really detailed technical issues which, as you know from having spoken to some of the stakeholders, really matter around meter functionality, inter-operability, and the telecommunications central function which is absolutely crucial to get right, so this quite a complex programme which we are going to need to work hard at but we are confident about the timetable we have expressed to 2020.

Q31 Mr. Dave Anderson: But if the people who are going to do it are not confident? The ERA are saying effectively we are going to be 20 per cent short in their view.

Mr Wynn Owen: I am really interested by that and would welcome any further details. As the Secretary of State indicated, some suppliers who think they are well positioned in the market are telling us they could go more quickly. Indeed, I had an email from one yesterday who had sat next to the Secretary of State at a dinner and reckons it can all be done in a matter of years. Obviously different people will be in a different position in the market and they are all jostling to go quicker or slower depending on where they think they are.

Edward Miliband: We will follow up, Dave, with the people you mentioned.

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Q81 Mr. Dave Anderson: You mentioned CCS projects and I know the policy is up to four. Is it up to four or is it going to be four?

Edward Miliband: I obviously hope it is going to be four, but those are discussions that have to take place about the exact number that we are going to fund and the exact implications of the levy. We say there will definitely be two in the first instance. I also think this reflects the phasing that we are talking about. We are talking about a decade essentially where we hopefully will have four projects and we need to get two going as quickly as possible and then another two, hopefully, will follow. So that is a discussion that is on-going and we will be making forthcoming announcements, I hope, on that.

Q82 Mr. Dave Anderson: Just to qualify the point that the Chairman raised about Harworth Colliery, my understanding is Harworth Colliery has been put on an extended mothball period for another 12 months and that the workforce at Welbeck Colliery could have automatically transferred across. They are looking at their working life finishing in February or April. So we are going to have a UK coalmine closed and one standing empty, not being used and, at the same time we are buying coal from regimes in this world where, frankly, the death rates for miners are what they were in the late nineteenth century in this country. Does that sit comfortably with you and, if it does not, why can we not do more to increase UK Coal production?

Edward Miliband: I want to encourage indigenous coal production - indeed, as you know, Hatfield pit reopened in my constituency a couple of years back - and that is why we are working with the EIB. It does require significant investment of money, money that it is hard for us to find from the Exchequer, but that is why we are working with the EIB, to try and make this thing happen and you have my absolute assurance, Dave, that we are working as hard as we can to make this happen and we are doing all we can with the EIB to make clear the importance of this.

Q83 Mr. Dave Anderson: A final question, and you will not be surprised I ask this. You had a discussion in the North East with people who are developing plans for underground gasification of coal and you agreed, in response to a question I asked you, on the floor about whether or not you look for support for doing a strategic environmental assessment in the North Sea. Is that being pursued?

Edward Miliband: We are pursuing that, and I am very happy to talk to you in more detail about this. We do think this has real potential importance. The new technology you talk about has got real value for us and we hope to take that forward.

This is an uncorrected transcript of evidence taken in public and reported to the House. The transcript has been placed on the internet on the authority of the Committee. Neither witnesses nor Members have had the opportunity to correct the record. The transcript is not yet an approved formal record of these proceedings.

The full transcript may be read here.

Promoted by Paul Foy on behalf of Dave Anderson, both of St Cuthbert's Church Hall, Shibdon Road, Blaydon, NE21 5PT